Well... what do you think??

[billybones]

Like to hear peoples views about the federal budget that`s about to be annouced.
I`m sure not everyones going to be happy with my next comment but then we are all allowed to have opinions.

Most times when they do a budget I get tired at how those with high incomes, have kids or some other type of government assistance seem to get the better deal.
People such as myself that are single with no dependents and earn between $28000-$42000 don`t seem to get much benefit at all. We still have to pay the same for food, feul for the car as well as the high cost of rent just like everybody else.

Unlike some, we don`t qualify for subsidised housing, subsidised electric or gas bills, subsidised medicine, subsidised car rego or subsidised phone bills.

Even if we tried to help ourselves by getting a second job, sometimes the tax rate makes it unworthwhile...

You may flame :violent5: or be snappy :ky: to me as much as you like.

 

[WRXXR]

I tend to agree with you.

Given interest rates, house prices and such a high cost of living (compared to elsewhere in the 1st world) it must be bloody tough sometimes on an income under 50K.

Assistance is genuinely deserved in a wide range of areas but i think it needs to be a case by case basis. The people on struggle street absolutely need help but those lazy pricks cruising through life crying poor need a wake up call.

BUT on the other hand whats to stop someone like yourself (single, no kids, educated) doing a few mining related courses and putting in a bit of effort for a couple of years and earning a much better income?

Mind you the more you earn the more you spend. I have less money now than i did 6 years ago when i was earning 35K lol

 

[Rochelle]

Sorry guys.......probably a very stupid question coming from somebody who is not very educated in economical matters........but why is it so very important to get the budget back into the blacks by 2012 and stretch especially the lower income class to the limit?????
Why not give it a bit more time? (Nobody could foresee the natural disasters in the East.........when you listen to the politicians that seems to be the reason for the tied budget).......:icon_scra

R.xxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[whilom]

Hi R
I'm no economist but apart from the political milage about money management there is a fairly good reason to pay off the debt quickly.

Us normal people see our mortgage at aroung $2 to 300 K and when we look at the statement and see the monthly interest that is debited and deduct that from our monthly payment it is verry dissapointing. Not much comes of the amount we borrowed and the Bank gets it's thousands in interest.
This will go on for 30 plus years.

Translate that to a deficit in the Billions and imagine how much Australia has to pay out in interest on a monthly basis.
The Deficit is money that is owed to someone else (I do not know who the someone is but perhaps one of the enlightened ones can elaborate) it's not just a big number for people to talk about.

The Whilom

I heard someone say that our daily interest bill is over a billion dollars.
Guess thats reason enough to want to pay it off by 2012.

Scary

 

[whilom]

Hey BB

I agree that you single guys get it rough but some couples are shafted to.

Take a guy who is maried with one child and he is the only bread winner.

Income $52,000
$16 k Tax free
$16 k to $26 K 20 cents in the dollar $2000
$26 K to $36 K 30 cents in the dollar $3000
$36 K to $46 K 40 cents in the dollar $4000
$46 K to $52 K 46 cents in the dollar $2760

Tax $11,760

Double income both on $26,000 = Family income $52,000

2 x $16 k Tax free
2 x $16 k to $26 K 20 cents in the dollar $4000

Tax $4,000

Note!!
The figures are general put the principle is correct.

Does that seem fair??

 

[WRXXR]

The Deficit is money that is owed to someone else (I do not know who the someone is but perhaps one of the enlightened ones can elaborate) it's not just a big number for people to talk about.

Isn't it the big international banks who lend other banks "money" (well on paper anyway) and one of the reasons we are in a recession (too much lending?)

 

[Farm Boy]

National debt has hit a record $106 billion, but Mr Swan said this was "a tiny fraction" of the debt carried by comparable countries and Australia's Budget was "the envy of the developed world".


1-Year / 4.95 Is the interest the gov pay per year for one year
2-Year / 5.02
3-Year / 5.12
4-Year / 5.18
5-Year / 5.25
6-Year / 5.28
8-Year / 5.34
9-Year / 5.36
10-Year / 5.39
15-Year 5.750 interest per year for 15 years

Looks like we may be paying a bit over 5 billion per year interest at the moment only trouble is Mr Swan is going further into the red he thinks 161 billion I think he wouldn't have a clue

 

[Haste69]

Interesting to note that "National Debt" is all debt owed to overseas entities by COMPANIES (LISTED & PRIVATE), INDIVIDUALS, STATE GOVERNMENTS, LOCAL GOVERNMENT, STATE & COMMONWEALTH INSTRUMENTALITIES & THE COMMONWEALTH.

Why do we borrow from overseas? Aussies (& that includes Farm Boy & Whilom) do not have a saving mentality, yet we need funds to build infrastructure, develop mines.

Fortunately foreigners love our EXCELLENT economy & our stable society so they are happy to lend to us.

I hate to save and when I have some extra I blow it on a good woman! I think that is the right and proper Aussie thing to do. A good GFE overnight once a month does wonders for my ego and improves the economy!

BTW Farm Boy please quote your figures

 

[Haste69]

Interesting to note that "National Debt" is all debt owed to overseas entities by COMPANIES (LISTED & PRIVATE), INDIVIDUALS, STATE GOVERNMENTS, LOCAL GOVERNMENT, STATE & COMMONWEALTH INSTRUMENTALITIES & THE COMMONWEALTH.

Why do we borrow from overseas? Aussies (& that includes Farm Boy & Whilom) do not have a saving mentality, yet we need funds to build infrastructure, develop mines.

Fortunately foreigners love our EXCELLENT economy & our stable society so they are happy to lend to us.

I hate to save and when I have some extra I blow it on a good woman! I think that is the right and proper Aussie thing to do. A good GFE overnight once a month does wonders for my ego and improves the economy!

BTW Farm Boy please quote your figures

 

[billybones]

Hey BB

I agree that you single guys get it rough but some couples are shafted to.

Take a guy who is maried with one child and he is the only bread winner.

Income $52,000
$16 k Tax free
$16 k to $26 K 20 cents in the dollar $2000
$26 K to $36 K 30 cents in the dollar $3000
$36 K to $46 K 40 cents in the dollar $4000
$46 K to $52 K 46 cents in the dollar $2760

Tax $11,760

Double income both on $26,000 = Family income $52,000

2 x $16 k Tax free
2 x $16 k to $26 K 20 cents in the dollar $4000

Tax $4,000

Note!!
The figures are general put the principle is correct.

Does that seem fair??

Sorry, sometimes I`m not the sharpest tool in the shed, am I right in understanding you on this...
The married man that is the only bread winner earns $52000 but is taxed $11760
But 2 income earners on $26000 each get taxed a total of only $4000.


If that`s right, can the married mans wife not get an allowance for their child from family services?? and why can she not make a claim for anything from the government for herself?

I would have thought a single person earning more then $26000 would pay more then $2000 in tax and even if they only paid that how can they survive based on todays prices? Yet if they were not working they may qualify for a subsidised home or some form of rent assistance.

 

[whilom]

There some rebates like claiming for supporting your spouse and there is some form of child allowance but I think they amount to a pittance.

Perhaps some youngr guys can enlighten us on current allowances or rebates.
I havn't had to worry about them for several years.

As I said I am not concersant with the current tax brackets as I just pay shitloads.

My calculations were representative not exact.
The principal is that a couple submitting two returns gets 2 x the tax free amount and 2 x the lowest tax bracket.
Tax is not charged on houshold income.

It's been like this for years.

Do not get me started on pensions for the elderly.

 

[Farm Boy]

Interesting to note that "National Debt" is all debt owed to overseas entities by COMPANIES (LISTED & PRIVATE), INDIVIDUALS, STATE GOVERNMENTS, LOCAL GOVERNMENT, STATE & COMMONWEALTH INSTRUMENTALITIES & THE COMMONWEALTH.

Why do we borrow from overseas? Aussies (& that includes Farm Boy & Whilom) do not have a saving mentality, yet we need funds to build infrastructure, develop mines.

Fortunately foreigners love our EXCELLENT economy & our stable society so they are happy to lend to us.

I hate to save and when I have some extra I blow it on a good woman! I think that is the right and proper Aussie thing to do. A good GFE overnight once a month does wonders for my ego and improves the economy!

BTW Farm Boy please quote your figures

Now Pay attention Hastey You are Correct NATIONAL debt is the money owed by state and fed governments Ausey corporations company's and people .
And the bad news is this debt is approaching 1000 billion.
The 106 billion Federal Government debt I quoted came from treasure Swan last night

 

[Happy2]

I see the Government did it's usual leading up to the big day It is going to be a hard budget We need strong measures etc Worry the hell out of us Oh Woe what are they going to do to us?
Come Tuesday night its Oh thats not to bad afterall They must of taken our needs into consideration Nowhere near as harsh as it could of been

 

[Happy2]

National debt is the killer more so than state. But who of us is going to forgo buying anything from overseas
For all the talk from govt and many big business figures we are still basically a primary production nation

 

[billybones]

There some rebates like claiming for supporting your spouse and there is some form of child allowance but I think they amount to a pittance.

Perhaps some youngr guys can enlighten us on current allowances or rebates.
I havn't had to worry about them for several years.

As I said I am not concersant with the current tax brackets as I just pay shitloads.

My calculations were representative not exact.
The principal is that a couple submitting two returns gets 2 x the tax free amount and 2 x the lowest tax bracket.
Tax is not charged on houshold income.

It's been like this for years.

Do not get me started on pensions for the elderly.

It`s starting to make some sense to me now... In reference to the couple at least they can share thier household bills, What about if it was just a single person on $26000.
Taking in accout all the benefits that may be on offer is it better finacially to be working or if they were not working and had a child or two?

 

[Happy2]

It`s starting to make some sense to me now... In reference to the couple at least they can share thier household bills, What about if it was just a single person on $26000.
Taking in accout all the benefits that may be on offer is it better finacially to be working or if they were not working and had a child or two?

May I suggest if you are over 21 and earning $26K before tax it may well be time to look for a better job

 

[billybones]

Just did a small calculation with some help using the centrelinks payments calculater and worked out the following...

If somebody works for $35000 a year they may pay about 3750 tax

35000 -3750 = 31250
rent maybe 250 per week or 13000 year
31250 - 13000 = 18250 into 26 fortnights = 701 per fortnight

Yet if you had your own home worth 400000 and had 1 child. you could claim parent payment and receive benefit starting from 614 per fortnight.
As well as be allowed to earn approx 200 per fortnight
You can also claim more benefits such as Pharmaceutical Allowance and Family Assistance of 255 per fortnight as examples.
614 + 200 + 255 = 1069 and maybe more benefits.

Maybe my calculations are wrong so please feel free to correct them but what seems the better offer?

 

[Fudd]

It was interesting to see that Tony Abbott & Joe Hockey alledgedly had a "spat" in relation to Joe's proposal to tax Family Trusts in the same way companies are taxed. Tony, like nearly all politicians from both sides of the fence, don't want Family Trusts to be taxed at the company rate.

Why? Simple......as an example:

Husband works and earns $85,000 p/a. Wife is a stay at home mum looking after 3 kids. Husband's income is earned through a Family Trust and the trust's beneficiaries are all 5 members of the family. Based on the ATO's tax rates for 2010/11 (see link below) and based on the gross income of $85K, if the husband DID NOT have a family trust, his taxable income would be $19,400.

However, if that income went through a Family Trust, the $85K would be divided amongst each beneficiary meaning that each person's taxable income (yes, includes the kids) would be $17,000 and the tax payable would be $1,650 per person. Therefore the total tax paid on the $85K would be $8,250.....a saving of $11,150. The company tax rate for 2010/11 was a flat $0.30 for every dollar. Thus using the above example, if the family Trust was taxed at the company rate, the tax assessment would have been $25,500.....more than double the current rate.

Of course, there are loads of other factors that would need to be taken into consideration, eg the cost to set up a Family Trust (a oneoff fee of some $200, I think), Corporate costs if the Trustee was a company, allowable deductions, operational costs etc etc. But the above is only intended as an example.

Fudd

Individual income tax rates

 

[Fudd]

Hey BB

I agree that you single guys get it rough but some couples are shafted to.

Take a guy who is maried with one child and he is the only bread winner.

Income $52,000
$16 k Tax free
$16 k to $26 K 20 cents in the dollar $2000
$26 K to $36 K 30 cents in the dollar $3000
$36 K to $46 K 40 cents in the dollar $4000
$46 K to $52 K 46 cents in the dollar $2760

Tax $11,760

Double income both on $26,000 = Family income $52,000

2 x $16 k Tax free
2 x $16 k to $26 K 20 cents in the dollar $4000

Tax $4,000

Note!!
The figures are general put the principle is correct.

Does that seem fair??

Hi Whilom,

Your principle is correct but just to clarify the your figures, based on the ATO's tax rates:
- the guy with 1 child and earning $52K would pay $9,150 in tax.
- the 2 individual income earners would pay $3000 EACH (total of $6000) in tax.

As I said, the principle is correct as there is indeed a difference even though the "household" income was the same and that doesn't seem to be fair.

In my opinion, income tax should be assessed on a "household" basis to level out some discrepancies. Obviously, this approach would need to be thought through intensly as it could be open to abuse. Just a thought.

Fudd

Individual income tax rates