And another Liberal Covid19 fiasco
- Thread starter Rochelle
- Start date
A
Annoyance
Of course because it applies to Australian Citizens only, we already have enough on our plate to the thousands without a job and going through the process of getting centerlink payments. If Australia gave money to foreigners(in our country, don't see any other countries helping our ozzies overseas) our treasury will be in the super reds, then Australia will definitely suffer from a depression state if it goes on long enough. While those foreigners fly back not footing the bill of a free meal or bedding.
Those NZ Citizens had a chance to become Australian citizens but they choose not to since 2011. Too late now.
Those NZ Citizens had a chance to become Australian citizens but they choose not to since 2011. Too late now.
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- 206
1) the Aussie living in NZ get full support !!!!!!!!! (still do even after Howard changed it for Kiwis living in Australia)
2) what about the spirit of ANZAC?
3) Australia is very happy to allow kiwis to be resident for tax purpose.......go figure
4) this is a humanitarian crisis in the first place and all the "foreigners" have paid their tax for years and deserve to be treated like human beings.
5) All people living in Australia permanently deserve to be looked after.
2) what about the spirit of ANZAC?
3) Australia is very happy to allow kiwis to be resident for tax purpose.......go figure
4) this is a humanitarian crisis in the first place and all the "foreigners" have paid their tax for years and deserve to be treated like human beings.
5) All people living in Australia permanently deserve to be looked after.
A
Annoyance
Thing is Australia was a strong supporting nation years with good backing and a strong growth in currency market(Aus $ was trading @ 1 to 1.2 US dollar) . Then we had those asylum seekers off Christmas island and more coming in, nps Australians will help and what did it give us? More mouths to feed for free ( centerlink, properties) and our economy did a nose dive, nps ozzies said we can handle it. Years later everyone's rent, food, properties...ect have gone up 140-200%.
Now comes this Pandemic should australia open it's banks to do it again? Sure we can say yes but at what cost? Suffer a bad depression( Turn into the next bali with a terrible currency rate, Indonesians will be visiting us cause their currency will be better then us ) and take years and years just to recover. In the mean time all of us still living in Oz will be saying, why it's it so expensive now a days, I can't pay rent anymore, I just got another paycut or tax increase on my pay bracket.
You won't know what your previous actions have concluded to. Causing your own living expense to sky rocket. For helping out. But Don't worry it's all good us tax payers will foot the bill regardless of our country state of well being.
And I forgot to add if Australia became too expensive to live what do you think all those Kiwis will be doing? Moving back to NZ where things will be cheaper, no strings attached cause they aren't australian citizens. And with approximately 630000 NZ citizens moving back to NZ what is that going to do to our economy with a depleted work force? I for sure know what would happen if that came to pass.
Now comes this Pandemic should australia open it's banks to do it again? Sure we can say yes but at what cost? Suffer a bad depression( Turn into the next bali with a terrible currency rate, Indonesians will be visiting us cause their currency will be better then us ) and take years and years just to recover. In the mean time all of us still living in Oz will be saying, why it's it so expensive now a days, I can't pay rent anymore, I just got another paycut or tax increase on my pay bracket.
You won't know what your previous actions have concluded to. Causing your own living expense to sky rocket. For helping out. But Don't worry it's all good us tax payers will foot the bill regardless of our country state of well being.
And I forgot to add if Australia became too expensive to live what do you think all those Kiwis will be doing? Moving back to NZ where things will be cheaper, no strings attached cause they aren't australian citizens. And with approximately 630000 NZ citizens moving back to NZ what is that going to do to our economy with a depleted work force? I for sure know what would happen if that came to pass.
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Fair enough but this is a different discussion.
This is about the NZ - Aussie connection - nothing else- which has been especially close. Australia changed the rules for Kiwis in 2001 and NZ didn't.
I am not talking about Asylum seeker (that is an entirely different discussion) , I am not talking about people who come to Australia and to go on Centre Link or other benefits (NZ don't get any of it - dough-). I am talking about Kiwis who came over here after 2001 to work in the mines and in any other industry, to make a living, who paid their taxes and are now facing hardship because they have lost their job and can't get any support......not because they are too lazy to look for a job but because there are no jobs thanks to an unforeseeable humanitarian crisis.
I think those people diverse to get COVID19 support for the time of the lock down.
This is about the NZ - Aussie connection - nothing else- which has been especially close. Australia changed the rules for Kiwis in 2001 and NZ didn't.
I am not talking about Asylum seeker (that is an entirely different discussion) , I am not talking about people who come to Australia and to go on Centre Link or other benefits (NZ don't get any of it - dough-). I am talking about Kiwis who came over here after 2001 to work in the mines and in any other industry, to make a living, who paid their taxes and are now facing hardship because they have lost their job and can't get any support......not because they are too lazy to look for a job but because there are no jobs thanks to an unforeseeable humanitarian crisis.
I think those people diverse to get COVID19 support for the time of the lock down.
A
Annoyance
That's why I gave you examples at the start to show you the before and after effects of giving aid. With those approximately 630000 NZ citizens giving say 500 bucks a fortnight to 1k for families that's 63 Million alone on the families costing the government for 1 fortnight.
So that'll be 7,560,000,000 AU dollars for 6 months if we provide our aid to them. So my question to you is how much of your pay can you afford in say 10-15 years to help bring the Australian treasury balance back to green? All the while the cost of living jumps about 4 times in one year alone.
There is nothing about ppl being lazy or not if they can work or not, they choose to stay as NZ citizens rules are rules. If your not a Citizen you won't get Australian benefits. Same with the ppl coming in under a working visa no different.
They had 9 years to change into Australian citizens but they didn't want to, cause they wanted the freedom to go back to NZ to stay if they wanted to a last resort so to speak. But they didn't and now the sky is falling they are all crying for help who's really to blame here?
I love how you're believing that Australians must help everyone in need in their own country, but as I've seen it and I bet our government has seen the affects. We just don't have the capacity to provide relief to others without starving our citizens at the same time.
So that'll be 7,560,000,000 AU dollars for 6 months if we provide our aid to them. So my question to you is how much of your pay can you afford in say 10-15 years to help bring the Australian treasury balance back to green? All the while the cost of living jumps about 4 times in one year alone.
There is nothing about ppl being lazy or not if they can work or not, they choose to stay as NZ citizens rules are rules. If your not a Citizen you won't get Australian benefits. Same with the ppl coming in under a working visa no different.
They had 9 years to change into Australian citizens but they didn't want to, cause they wanted the freedom to go back to NZ to stay if they wanted to a last resort so to speak. But they didn't and now the sky is falling they are all crying for help who's really to blame here?
I love how you're believing that Australians must help everyone in need in their own country, but as I've seen it and I bet our government has seen the affects. We just don't have the capacity to provide relief to others without starving our citizens at the same time.
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Ok just a last word before I knock off for tonight.......check out what it takes to become a Australian citizen nowadays under the special category visa 444.....it is not a walk in the park. (And you still haven't addressed the fact that NZ is looking after the Australians over there - quid pro quo - or so I thought.)
And the New Zealanders over here have accepted the fact that there is no Centre Link welfare......otherwise no one would be here.......but COVID19 is NOT a Centre Link crisis.........it is a humanitarian one and should NOT be put on Centre Link.
I think it was a cunning move from a Liberal government to put it on Centre Link to cut out over half a million people.
Why not run it through the Tax department and give everybody who pays tax a tax relief/rebate to survive COVID19?
Good night
And the New Zealanders over here have accepted the fact that there is no Centre Link welfare......otherwise no one would be here.......but COVID19 is NOT a Centre Link crisis.........it is a humanitarian one and should NOT be put on Centre Link.
I think it was a cunning move from a Liberal government to put it on Centre Link to cut out over half a million people.
Why not run it through the Tax department and give everybody who pays tax a tax relief/rebate to survive COVID19?
Good night
A
Annoyance
If only the world was perfect in that sense yes, but we are living in an imperfect world, with back door dealings, backstabs and yes ripping off the Australian ppl at the same time. And increasing tax when they see fit. So you yourself already know the answer to the question of your own problem.
Madmax1700
Legend Member
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- 47
A
Annoyance
If you really want to go there on becoming an Australian citizen my step dad has gone there pushed through it. I'll be nice and say endured the process. So if he can do it... anyone else can all it takes it determination on getting it. And he was a Singapore citizen and did the process 10-14 years ago. Now i'll say it is hard to become an Australian because of the boom of asylum seekers becoming citizens so the need for more ppl as a work force has dropped. But wasn't years ago.
And as you said it NZers wanted to work in Aus while staying as NZers. It's not the governments problem they themselves choose to be that, so the government let them and those NZers became a permanent casual work force. Again their choice. So really after a long time of staying in that state and comfortable at it, do they cry for help when a brick wall finally hits them in the face( The virus). And all of a sudden demand that since they've worked over 10+ years in AUS that they automatically become citizens or due to some sort of compensation towards them? Really?
Same principle it's like a causal working in a company for 10+ years then, demand annual leave or compensation for the work he's put into the company. Due to a unforeseeable circumstance. Do you see that company caring what the casual thinks? Now how about a full timer? Same thing.
Australians can only care for australians atm, if those NZers really need support they should go back to their government and demand support due to being NZ citizens. Or if it gets too tough travel back to NZ and seek support. New Zealand must fork the bill for their citizens regardless of where they are. Just like how Australia atm is doing it's best to bring every Australian citizen home, not singaporian, not American, not New Zealanders. Australians.
And as you said it NZers wanted to work in Aus while staying as NZers. It's not the governments problem they themselves choose to be that, so the government let them and those NZers became a permanent casual work force. Again their choice. So really after a long time of staying in that state and comfortable at it, do they cry for help when a brick wall finally hits them in the face( The virus). And all of a sudden demand that since they've worked over 10+ years in AUS that they automatically become citizens or due to some sort of compensation towards them? Really?
Same principle it's like a causal working in a company for 10+ years then, demand annual leave or compensation for the work he's put into the company. Due to a unforeseeable circumstance. Do you see that company caring what the casual thinks? Now how about a full timer? Same thing.
Australians can only care for australians atm, if those NZers really need support they should go back to their government and demand support due to being NZ citizens. Or if it gets too tough travel back to NZ and seek support. New Zealand must fork the bill for their citizens regardless of where they are. Just like how Australia atm is doing it's best to bring every Australian citizen home, not singaporian, not American, not New Zealanders. Australians.
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Sooner have one Jacinda Ardern than the all the politicians in Canberra .... The two things in this crisis that people are relying upon :
Medicare
Superannuation
Are BOTH Labor Party Inventions.
Ever Since NZ got out of ANZUS they have forged there way in the world without war... Maybe Australia is pissy because they can't win the Bledisloe Cup... Or Just pissy that Kiwis are better liked overseas, harder working, and well Kiwi Women are better in the sack! LOL
A
Annoyance
Not sure @baal6007 I've never done it before, I tend to knock brick walls till they break. Best ask someone who's done it. Try the post that's been about ignoring ppl on TS think it's about 3-4 pages back I think.
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Do Aussies that live in NZ have to become Kiwis? if not then that should work both ways.
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I think that the fact we're not looking after the kiwis here is embarrassing. Like Rochelle said, if this had been put through the tax department then everybody gets looked after fairly. I am a firm believer in the ANZAC spirit, and the fact that NZ are looking after us in their country, and we're not looking after them in ours is just one of the most "Un-Australian" things I've ever seen.
As for having to become a citizen if you want to stay in Australia and get help in a humanitarian crisis, why??? Some of our permanent residents/working visa holders pay more tax in a year than some "true-blue-home-grown" Aussies who haven't spent a year of their life OFF Centrelink. Why should someone have to become a citizen of the country they've lived in, paid tax in, contributed to the economy in, created meaningful links in the community in, started a small business in, had a family in, to be helped by that country? There is a special bond between New Zealand and Australia, and I hope there always will be, and this is just so truly mortifying by our government.
As for having to become a citizen if you want to stay in Australia and get help in a humanitarian crisis, why??? Some of our permanent residents/working visa holders pay more tax in a year than some "true-blue-home-grown" Aussies who haven't spent a year of their life OFF Centrelink. Why should someone have to become a citizen of the country they've lived in, paid tax in, contributed to the economy in, created meaningful links in the community in, started a small business in, had a family in, to be helped by that country? There is a special bond between New Zealand and Australia, and I hope there always will be, and this is just so truly mortifying by our government.
baal6007
Foundation Member
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It works both ways.
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I have to agree with Rochelle the Kiwi pays tax here and there are a lot of Aussie's living in NZ and they get equal support....
A
Annoyance
Then it's the Kiwi government at fault for not pushing equal rights for both sides when this bill was passed, and still till this day no one has gone back to challenge this bill. Like I said the NZers in Australia choose to stay in this type of situation, they didn't fight for their rights to change the act/bill after it was decided years ago. Choosing a Pandemic time of all things to finally demand the act/bill be changed is not the right time to debate it. Surely ppl should be able to see the difference in the timing of the right place and right time for everything. Atm the Australian government does not have time to be dealing with more problems on it's plate, because it's already full trying to fix the problems their own citizens have caused.
Remember seeing that TV series The 100 on the second dawn bunker? They had an overcrowding problem so they had to choose who could live or die which was a very hard choice. To let everyone in and survive for a short while becoming cannibals in the end or the other method. And for the good of the human race they choose the latter.
There also the fact that if the Australian government did decide, helped them out would they be getting the same also from their own government. (We don't know what The NZ government is offering their citizens atm, which would also include their NZer citizens overseas) Double pay from 2 countries they'll be living the life. Remember those British citizens that were dual citizens? They were getting welfare payments from Australia and Europe at the same time, but none where wiser till ppl found that out the hard way. ( If I was getting 2k plus a week for free i'll be hoping this problem doesn't end or if it's starts to die down find ways to keep it going) Cause ppl will do that.
In these times of great need those NZers must demand help from their own Country, cause like every citizen their country is responsible for them. If a NZer caused a problem overseas, the fingers pointing won't look at where that NZer is living but what country they are citizens/Aligned with.
Remember seeing that TV series The 100 on the second dawn bunker? They had an overcrowding problem so they had to choose who could live or die which was a very hard choice. To let everyone in and survive for a short while becoming cannibals in the end or the other method. And for the good of the human race they choose the latter.
There also the fact that if the Australian government did decide, helped them out would they be getting the same also from their own government. (We don't know what The NZ government is offering their citizens atm, which would also include their NZer citizens overseas) Double pay from 2 countries they'll be living the life. Remember those British citizens that were dual citizens? They were getting welfare payments from Australia and Europe at the same time, but none where wiser till ppl found that out the hard way. ( If I was getting 2k plus a week for free i'll be hoping this problem doesn't end or if it's starts to die down find ways to keep it going) Cause ppl will do that.
In these times of great need those NZers must demand help from their own Country, cause like every citizen their country is responsible for them. If a NZer caused a problem overseas, the fingers pointing won't look at where that NZer is living but what country they are citizens/Aligned with.
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sircurious
Legend Member
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It's probably does look unfair on paper - however the amount of NZ citizens living in Australia are 9 times the amount of Australians living in NZ. NZ can thus afford to pay welfare to all of its citizens or permanent residents who are entitled to it. Unfortunately at this time Australia cannot afford to provide benefits to non-Australian citizens, because if we could, then for example we should be providing assistance to international students who pay ten's of thousands in fees on a yearly basis, pay a higher rate of compulsory private medical insurance, rent etc and also pay taxes when they work. And a lot of international students work in the adult industry and they are probably ones who are suffering the most with no income or assistance.
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baldie
Gold Member
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- 2
Why doesn't the New Zealand government provide welfare for their citizens who are living in Australia? I'm sure it'll be easy enough to transfer the funds from New Zealand to the accounts in Australia. Just provide an online application and co-operate with Australian centrelink to get the funds in into their bank accounts. If the British can get their old-age pensions anywhere in the world, I'm sure New Zealand can do it. Even if it is temporarily, as she stated.
Is the idea of publicly shaming Morrison, just a way to distract Kiwis in Australia from looking at their own government and asking "What the hell, Jacinda?"
That's a bloody good point
A
Annoyance
If any country could pawn off its approximately 630000 citizens to keep their economy strong they would, Wouldn't you just pass the buck to someone else if it avoided a country collapse at the same time?
A
Annoyance
Because everyone around the world are use to blaming Australians for the lack of trying and as always Australia gives in. Just look at the Asylum seekers in the past, everyone around the world said no to accepting any of them. But when the world looked at Australia for doing the same, they all jumped on the bandwagon to point fingers. And we gave in. Now the world knows how weak our government is to world problems, that they can push them and push till we eventually give in. It's a political move. The strong will always pick on the weak.
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Probably have him talking to a Sherrin all day.....
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Germany took in 1.4 million refugees by 2018......just saying
it is human life we are talking about.
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They were forced to, Merkel really didn't want to but her hands were tied, after that she lost a lot of voters and Germans who wanted her gone, then there were the Mass rapes and sexual assaults at Cologne over A new years eve, and now loads of sexual assaults and rapes go unreported in Germany by some of these immigrants.. and the figure was not quite 1.4 million it was more like 800,000 which on the quite Germany has been deporting for various reasons. This is in part of the rise of the AfD in Germany and other right wing factions and groups in Germany.