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Rochelle's Political Thread

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Farm Boy

Re: Carbon tax

Bit of light reading 4 chook.


Yesterday, at her National Press Club speech, Julia Gillard told the media that she thought they should stop “…writing crap…” about the debate surrounding her decision to introduce a carbon tax.

Her decision to attack Australia’s national media is simply another attempt throw the light off the serious negative consequences that the Labor Green Carbon Tax will have on all Australians – all with no serious reductions in carbon emissions.

It’s no wonder the national media simply won’t believe her. Who would after saying that “… there will be no carbon tax under a government I lead…” just 6 days before the last election?

By introducing a Carbon Tax, Julia Gillard is putting the future economic prosperity of the nation at risk because from now on, all Australian businesses and industries will be facing an extra, higher tax that none of our major competitors face.

Today, in Friday Facts we’ve set out the facts which make it quite clear that by introducing a carbon tax, Australia is acting alone and that by doing so, hurts Australian industries, destroys jobs and drives up prices on just about everything.

The US has no national carbon tax policy. In the United States, all moves towards a national cap-and-trade scheme have been abandoned.
Canada does not have a federal carbon tax. The Conservative Party in Canada recently won an outright majority on an explicit policy of rejecting any unilateral carbon tax or ETS.
Japan does not have a carbon tax. Recently, Japan stated that it would not be introducing a carbon tax.
China’s emissions will grow by 7 billion tonnes from 2005 to 2020, approximately 100 times Australia’s decrease of 70 million tonnes. There is zero chance that either China or India will adopt any form of serious carbon tax.
The Labor Green carbon tax will be 18 times larger in dollar terms than the European scheme to date. The EU scheme has raised just over $1 per person per year compared to our scheme at the Government’s $23 price which will raise almost $400 per person per year! In short, the Australian carbon tax is approximately 400 times more onerous on a per capita basis than the European scheme.
The problem with a carbon tax in Australia which other countries don’t have to face is that this tax puts our industries at a great competitive disadvantage – the steel industry; the motor industry; the aluminium industry; and the coal industry.

This go-it-alone carbon tax will impose a heavy cost on Australian industries that our overseas competitors will not face. Australian jobs will be sent offshore for no environmental gain. It will push up the price of electricity, gas, transport and food.

The Labor Green Carbon Tax will send jobs offshore and hurt Australia’s economy without improving the world’s environment. Say NO to the Labor Green Carbon Tax.

Click here for further information on the Labor Green carbon tax.


you did ask about the libs chook there stuff friday.
 
M

Mary Anne PA

Re: Carbon tax

I am a firm believer of carbon emmission and it's existance hence though aware that carbon tax will lead to price rise to many services,utilities and commoditties that we use or consume on daily basis, some sort of visiniory or drastic carbon policy is required.

It is just my opinion that what other big polluters coutries not doing is not relevant but what is important is that we start it from somewhere and i am glad that Julia Gillard is brave & bold enough to push this bill forward, it might cost her next election who knows but if this bill pass through in parliament and hit the right economic tune then her legacy will be remember for long time.

I am sure most of us do know that in order to lessen the burden of carbon tax effect, government has put forward personal income tax bracket amendment, taking tax free thereshold to $18,200 and increasing tax rate from 15% to 19%. This tax bracket amendment will put some extra tax saving to lower income earner pockets. Base on rough calculation employee on $55K will save approxmately $600 on tax saving effective next financial year (feel free to correct me if someone do not agree with my calculation).
On top of tax savings, family benefits and assistance will be upped as well. Government have stated that they put back more than 50% of revenue generated from carbon tax to the families in need.

On top of direct payments by means of tax savings and family benefits, it wil create many more new jobs and some argue that it even create a some sort of new market once ETS is introduced from 1 July 2015 which in than create many more jobs as it will work as a market where people will be buying and selling carbon permits.

I guess, we can argue about carbon tax, its implications, pro's & con's for days but i better stop it here atleast for tonight.
 

Happy2

Legend Member
Points
15
Re: Carbon tax

One thing I do think they have wrong is allowing the price of Public transport to be increased but quarantining petrol for cars. We all want the perfect healthy world
but if you affect me& my car there will be hell to pay. Make the world better but
dont make me sit on a bus
 
A

Alecia the Foxx

Re: Carbon tax

One thing I do think they have wrong is allowing the price of Public transport to be increased but quarantining petrol for cars. We all want the perfect healthy world
but if you affect me& my car there will be hell to pay. Make the world better but
dont make me sit on a bus


Lolol! I have to admit that even though I am a greenie I tend to feel the same way. I try to make up for it in other ways :eek:ccasion14 :walk:
 

Happy2

Legend Member
Points
15
Re: Carbon tax

Thats another thing Alecia You signed off with the cheers symbol Two frosty beers
Beer is full of CO2 bubbles Ban it and champers as well Or only sell warm flat English beer
 
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Alecia the Foxx

Re: Carbon tax

I don't drink beer, I drink red wine. but the 2 frosty beers is the only cheers symbol.
 

Happy2

Legend Member
Points
15
Re: Carbon tax

Well see Alecia You are doing your bit Maybe get a calculation going drink two bottles of red counteracts two drunken beer swillin Aussies intake
 

Rochelle

Forum & Langtrees.com Administrator
Staff member
Legend Member
Points
224
Re: Carbon tax

Guess Julia could say "no carbon tax under her government" before she had to face the election result. (note.......that's how the Australian people voted) Trying to get a government together under such circumstances is not easy. It comes down to compromises........Julia needed the Greens and they did come with a carbon tax. So it wasn't a lie.......it was a compromise to form a government. I wonder what Mr. Abbott's compromise would have been. Easy talking when you are in the opposition.

R.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

PS: The Western Australian from last Monday page 22.........one of the few articles about the carbon tax which tries to be objective rather than political.
 

Happy2

Legend Member
Points
15
Re: Carbon tax

The only problem I have with your last idea Rochelle is about 10% of voters voted for a carbon tax in that they voted for the greens Or approx80% of voters whether lab/lib did not
 
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Farm Boy

Re: Carbon tax

The carbon tax is going to reduce carbon emissions its not about raising revenue for the Gov . Right?

This is what Mr Swan sad to the coal industry yesterday.


This port will export an additional 100 million tonnes of coal and gas by 2020, such is the scale of the investment boom in this region. Already $32 billion of announced investments into LNG and more to come,” he said.

“What these investments show is that investors will continue to invest with a carbon price. These investments have been made in full knowledge, and full acknowledgment, of a carbon price.


Farm Boys prediction is

Gov raises more money Aus carbon emissions will increase forever. and .Julia Gillard will win the next election as PM.
 
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Alecia the Foxx

Re: Carbon tax

"... lay off the Fox.
She has been known to take revenge by cutting holes in your toilet paper so your finger goes through." Lol, what a great idea.

And to the person who cast aspertions on Greenpeace as being "another political organisation," not sure I would agree with that, per se. Sure Greenpeace is an organisation, and one with a political purpose, but it is non-governmental and therefore not affiliated with any particular country or party, and driven by a desire to save the environment which in turn will save all our lives, not just the lives of those who support it. I have seen no proof that they tell lies purely to further their own cause. If anyone has some, let's see it.
 
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Farm Boy

Re: Carbon tax

"... lay off the Fox.
She has been known to take revenge by cutting holes in your toilet paper so your finger goes through." Lol, what a great idea.

And to the person who cast aspertions on Greenpeace as being "another political organisation," not sure I would agree with that, per se. Sure Greenpeace is an organisation, and one with a political purpose, but it is non-governmental and therefore not affiliated with any particular country or party, and driven by a desire to save the environment which in turn will save all our lives, not just the lives of those who support it. I have seen no proof that they tell lies purely to further their own cause. If anyone has some, let's see it.

That was me Alecia and I do Honestly believe Greenpeace is political, and as a aside Major political party's have credibility

Also Alecia the Green party's are aligned with Green Peace.
 
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Alecia the Foxx

Re: Carbon tax

Or, the Green Party is aligned with Green Peace.

For instance, Green Peace follows a philosophy of environmentalism, if other political parties had the same sort of philosophy, it would be in agreement with them too. I guess I am trying to say that Greenpeace is more interested in following through with their own philosophies rather than aligning with any particular party. And as Rochelle said, in terms of the Australian government, compromises had to be made. Just because only 20% of people "voted" for Carbon Tax, by voting for the Greens, it doesen't mean that their concerns shouldn't be taken seriously.
 
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BigBlackCock

Re: Carbon tax

I love the way Libs criticize the spending of $12 million on advertising and $13million on an education campaign for the campaign tax but have forgotten they spent $125million on Workchoices. Aaah, politicians and selective memories - always amuses me.
 
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Farm Boy

Re: Carbon tax

Or, the Green Party is aligned with Green Peace.

For instance, Green Peace follows a philosophy of environmentalism, if other political parties had the same sort of philosophy, it would be in agreement with them too. I guess I am trying to say that Greenpeace is more interested in following through with their own philosophies rather than aligning with any particular party. And as Rochelle said, in terms of the Australian government, compromises had to be made. Just because only 20% of people "voted" for Carbon Tax, by voting for the Greens, it doesen't mean that their concerns shouldn't be taken seriously.

Greenpeace anti-GM campaigner, Louise Sales.is employed by WA Greens MLC, Lynn MacLaren. well so what but in sure the political Green party's and Green Peace are close world wide .

A bit like the old Farmers Union starting the Country Party in Aus ( about 100 years ago )
 
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Alecia the Foxx

Re: Carbon tax

Greenpeace anti-GM campaigner, Louise Sales.is employed by WA Greens MLC, Lynn MacLaren. well so what but in sure the political Green party's and Green Peace are close world wide .

A bit like the old Farmers Union starting the Country Party in Aus ( about 100 years ago )


Well, I dunno. The country Party would have been looking after the interests of farmers, yeah? Since they were started by the Old Farmers Union? Correct me if I am wrong, but that is a group of people starting up a political party to further their own (economic) interests.

Green Peace is concerned about the interests of all of mankind in terms of the fact that if we screw over Mother Earth too much, we won't be here to discuss that. Not to mention the other creatures who live on the earth. So to me there is no comparison, really. It is not a group of people protecting solely their own interests.
 

viper

Gold Member
Points
0
Re: Carbon tax

Ok to me if you believe in Co2 and greenhouse gas or not we should all be able to agree pollution is bad if it be gas,physical etc. I don`t support the tax but I do support the reduction of pollution and the introduction of renewable energy I think lead the world don`t follow it. You might say how do we do that without a tax I say carbon based fuels were not all brought in via a tax. If we implement rules to reduce pollution it would be far better then taxing everyone for having it.
 
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wcmonger

Re: Carbon tax

Trouble is, people like wcmonger find these facts inconvenient. Australia's economy today (2011) is performing the best it has ever had, GDP per capita is the highest it has ever been and is the envy of the world - even though that would probably be the case whichever party is in power.

Wcmonger, don't you think you are embarrasing yourself? Do you really think workchoices, expansion of middle class welfare, pissing up Australia's mining tax revenue against the wall to get re-elected etc of the previous government was good policy? Give me the NBN over this any day! Like the current government they were luck Australia is in a globak purple patch otherewise Howard Govt's economic performance would have been little better than Fraser in 1982 (remember how the Liberal party did actually fuck the economy, unlike your assertion about the current government?). The previous government (Howard) was Australia's highest taxing government (% of GDP - see ABS stats) and basically the whole mob were asleep at the wheel. So there, the facts don't support anything you say. Are you an unhappy person more generally to be drivelling such hate crap?

Perhaps mate you are posting on the wrong site. Try liberalparty.org or one of the many politics blog sites - though with the latter I suspect even the conservative posters wouldn't countenance your ignorant rants.

Lets see chook - which part of this do you dispute??

Carbon Tax - govt rort - will be a total fuck up and destroy economy. Er, almost 70% of the population agree.

NBN - As above

Mining Tax - as above

Pink Bats - govt rort - WAS a total fuck up FACT

Building Education Revolution - govt rort - WAS a total fuck up FACT

K Rudd - total DUD !!!!!!!!! FACT
Juliar Gillard - as above x 10 and has a head that would make a train take a dirt track. Will be tossed on the scrapheap where she belongs within 6 months FACT

Howard Govt handed over a current account surplus .

Gillard now presides over a $200b deficit - FACT - and what happens if GFC hits again??? Australia could be in BIG strife.


You said - "Give me the NBN over this any day!" exactly what benefit does this give for $43b ????

For 90% of the population it wont make much difference unless you know more than 90% of economists & media commentators. But this is the type of garbage that buys votes for labour from nuff nuffs like you.

:eek:ccasion14
 
F

Farm Boy

Re: Carbon tax

Well, I dunno. The country Party would have been looking after the interests of farmers, yeah? Since they were started by the Old Farmers Union? Correct me if I am wrong, but that is a group of people starting up a political party to further their own (economic) interests.

Green Peace is concerned about the interests of all of mankind in terms of the fact that if we screw over Mother Earth too much, we won't be here to discuss that. Not to mention the other creatures who live on the earth. So to me there is no comparison, really. It is not a group of people protecting solely their own interests.

I dug up one more Alecia.One of your countryman Gareth Hughes NZ Greens MP and Green peace activist.

Being "active" included having his photo splashed across newspapers worldwide in 2004 after being arrested while dressed as Ronald McDonald. Hughes was protesting against the fast-food chain's use of genetically engineered chicken feed and chained himself to one of the company's distribution centres. He was arrested and dealt with under the police diversion scheme.


Not saying anything wrong with that Foxy I just insisting Green Peace is a player in world politics and have a intermingling with Green party's
 
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chook

Silver Member
Points
0
Re: Carbon tax

Wc

Worst performing government in Australian history (bar the great depression of the 30s) - Fraser Liberal Govt Fact

Highest taxing government in Australian history - Howard Government Fact

Carbon tax as a step to an ETS - most nations are attempting to address climate change Fact

Did the Liberal Party under Howard and Turnbull support an ETS? - yes Fact

Did Abbott reverse Liberal party policy on the ETS because he wanted to confuse the electorate in a desperate attempt to gain government (and God help us if that ever happens) - yes Fact

Is the Liberal party divided on this issue - yes Fact

MRRT (aka mining tax) - good policy allowing Australians who own the non renewable resources to get a reasonable return Fact

NBN - forward thinking long term infrastructure Fact

As for deficits (I think you mean budget deficits as being a net importer of capital, Australia's current account usually always is in deficit), was the highest deficit recorded under Liberal Govt - Yes, Fraser/Howard 1982 Fact

Did Howard have to deal with the GFC - No

Is the current budget deficit the result of the GFC and the policy reponse to it - Yes Fact

Was the policy a success - Yes Fact

Would the Howard govt had done the same if they were re-elected with the result of deficit? - Yes, it is orthodox economic policy not some ALP creation Fact

Is a budget deficit preferable to a recession (or depression) - Yes Fact

Are you ignorant when it comes to economics? -Yes Fact

Do political party stooges (whatever party) like yourself make up stories and twist facts to suit their agendas? Yes Fact

Based on verifiable facts (apart from what Howard would have done if re-elected) I rest my case.
 
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BigBlackCock

Re: Carbon tax

I love the way how the ex-Reserve Bank Governor General came out and stated that the economy performed worse under previous Liberal Governments than under Labor even during the recession we had to have. And this guy was a Liberal appointee.

Note: please see post further below
 
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Alecia the Foxx

Re: Carbon tax

I might have to start the Chook fan club. :eek:ccasion14
 
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Farm Boy

Re: Carbon tax

I love the way how the ex-Reserve Bank Governor General came out last year and stated that the economy performed worse under previous Liberal Governments than under Labor even during the recession we had to have. And this guy was a Liberal appointee.

More of Big Black Cock???? s codswallop there is no such thing as a Reserve Bank Governor General did the junior cadet journalist forget to check with the Editor?
 
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brawler

Re: Carbon tax

“Green is the new Red — Stop Enviro-Communism!”,

“The neo-communist agenda uses politicised science to propagate the global warming scam in order to implement their true agenda; global Marxism.

“You might know them as environmentalists, enviro-communists, eco-Marxists, neo-Communists or eco-fanatics. They all claim they want to save the world from global warming but their true agenda is to contribute to create a world government lead by the UN or in other ways increase the transfer of resources (redistribute resources) from the developed Western world to the third world.

“They are using our trust and faith in science to spread lies and hysteria that will allow Marxists to implement socialist — solutions to a problem that never actually existed.”

The Carbon Tax is just another Marxist socialist Big Government solution to a problem that does not exist.
 
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Alecia the Foxx

Re: Carbon tax

“Green is the new Red — Stop Enviro-Communism!”,

“The neo-communist agenda uses politicised science to propagate the global warming scam in order to implement their true agenda; global Marxism.

“You might know them as environmentalists, enviro-communists, eco-Marxists, neo-Communists or eco-fanatics. They all claim they want to save the world from global warming but their true agenda is to contribute to create a world government lead by the UN or in other ways increase the transfer of resources (redistribute resources) from the developed Western world to the third world.

“They are using our trust and faith in science to spread lies and hysteria that will allow Marxists to implement socialist — solutions to a problem that never actually existed.”


I am an environmentalist, but I am not a communist, so therefore, can't be a neo-communist. I will decide what my beliefs are, thanks, don't need you to define them for me.
 
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WRXXXR

Re: Carbon tax

Blah blah blah.

How many of you actually have more money / assets / toys than this time 2 years ago or 2 years before that? I bet all of you. Everyone whinges about getting taxed but the reality that life in wa is actually pretty fucking good. How many countries exist where it's fairly easy for a low skilled person to earn 100k+. Not many.

If you don't want to pay tax, i hear Seychelles and Cyprus are nice this time of the year!
 

Happy2

Legend Member
Points
15
Re: Carbon tax

WR3XR The bit about toys is the bit that gets me We all want our cars, airconditioners and for some its ginormous TV's and the other luxuries of the 21st century but we want it, like many like sex NSA I want a better world but Im not going to suffer any inconvenience in the process
 
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Alecia the Foxx

Re: Carbon tax

WR3XR The bit about toys is the bit that gets me We all want our cars, airconditioners and for some its ginormous TV's and the other luxuries of the 21st century but we want it, like many like sex NSA I want a better world but Im not going to suffer any inconvenience in the process

Do you think it will be inconvenient when there is no world to play with our toys in?
 

Happy2

Legend Member
Points
15
Re: Carbon tax

Thing is Alecia I dont have most of the toys like air con (house is surrounded by deciduous trees Natural aircon)
or huge TV we are happy with a smallish TV (no teens or 20 somethings who need the latest & greatest) And the farm is minimal tillage etc I really meant society in general wants all the pros without the cons
 
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WRXXXR

Re: Carbon tax

I am guilty of having the toys (65" 3d tv is my latest investment) but I'm all for the carbon tax. If it makes big business (who it really affects) become cleaner then it's a good thing. Sure that cost gets passed on to us but it creates more jobs and ultimately wealth.

I think that's the view of the younger generation in general. Young people do want the good stuff but i believe also understand the need to find ways to look after mother nature a shitload better. Which Numpty running the country is irrelevant to many.



Sooner we go nuclear the better.
 
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