Daylight Saving

MrBig

Diamond Member
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Why is daylight saving needed by anyone in the first instance?
Surely if business owners and their employees wish to take advantage of extra sunlight at the end of day they can elect to start earlier.

The time is an indicator of number of degrees longitude a place is from Greenwich. If I’m in Perth and the sun is directly overhead I know that the sun will be roughly directly over London 8 hours later. Most workers in construction arrange to be on site at dawn all year round - dawn is not dictated by what is showing on a watch. These facts do not change with daylight savings so why have the clock dials display an alternate reality of time?

Differences Perth v Sydney (I’ve used Sydney in this instance as its latitude is similar to Perth).
  1. Perth is at roughly 116 degrees longitude and therefore approximate 4 degrees WEST of the time line. Sydney is roughly 151 degrees longitude and therefore approximately 1 degree EAST of the time line. That’s a 5 degree difference which is equivalent to 20 minutes. Therefore, just on that basis, Perth has the equivalent of 20 minutes of “daylight saving” all year round.
  2. Perth’s sunset is over the ocean, Sydney’s is behind mountains. I haven’t done the maths to tell me how many degrees of arc those mountains represent but I’m sure that they’ll affect the sunset by roughly 5 minutes now taking Perth to 25 minutes of extra sunlight at the end of the day – all year round.
  3. Sunrise in Perth is also 20 minutes later in Perth than in Sydney which means that late during the daylight savings period many of Perth’s office workers are already leaving for work in darkness.
Differences Perth v Melbourne.
  1. Perth is at roughly 116 degrees longitude and therefore approximate 4 degrees WEST of the time line. Melbourne is roughly 145 degrees longitude and therefore approximately 5 degree WEST of the time line. That’s a 1 degree difference which is equivalent to 4 minutes. Therefore, on that basis, Melbourne has the equivalent of 24 minutes of “daylight saving” all year round.
  2. Melbourne’s latitude is almost 6 degrees further south than Perth’s resulting in a much longer twilight period and generally cooler conditions.
  3. I’ve spoken to a number of Melbournians that don’t like daylight saving.
Every town, city, state and country has a unique climate and unique lifestyles should be adopted accordingly.
As an example, many European locations adopt a ‘siesta’ period for the warmer hours of the day. This allows people to relax and re-energise so that they may take advantage of the cooler evening hours where you find people eating and drinking and socialising until all hours of the night.
Restaurants in Perth find that during daylight savings they have the same number of patrons, stretched out over an extra hour, then people are off home to prepare for their hectic lifestyle revolving around work – leaving the restaurant owners’ a one hour increase in running cost.

Technological advancement in communications has made clock watching a thing of the past for private and business sectors; remember, with daylight saving, children will be finishing their school day at the height of UV radiation.
 
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purplefixer

Silver Member
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0
Daylight savings should have been done away with when people stopped using candles to mark time...

It's a silly artifact, and a random, clumsy weapon, from a bygone age.

There's no reason we can't move to a 24hr clock and no reason why businesses in Perth should be closing at 5pm when -everyone is still at work-. Shops should be open 10-8, with banks, schools, and offices open from 8-4/9-5. This way workers swap sides when they need their services. In the states virtually everyone is open from 9am to 10pm, and many of the megastores are 24hrs with only two days closed a year. Some don't even have locks on the doors.
 

Phoebe

Some Village lost an Idiot!
Legend Member
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Daylight savings...... WA voted NO for that too...... Even the UK has daylight savings.....
 

Phoebe

Some Village lost an Idiot!
Legend Member
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Wow!
I didn't believe that to possible.
You finally gave West Australians a compliment.
Great to know we're a smarter state than some other countries.

Thanks Phoebe.:)


WA folks are known as NIMBYS....

Daylight savings is great sorry to say... its great having light at 9pm at night...

WA is a good place... great for minors then when you become an adult time to leave... insert sarcasm ..

The UK kicks the whole of australia to the kerb... sorry to say...

Thanks for your kind words... but I was being my normal bitchy self..
 

MrBig

Diamond Member
Points
0
WA folks are known as NIMBYS....

Daylight savings is great sorry to say... its great having light at 9pm at night...

WA is a good place... great for minors then when you become an adult time to leave... insert sarcasm ..

The UK kicks the whole of australia to the kerb... sorry to say...

Thanks for your kind words... but I was being my normal bitchy self..
I know and they're more fine examples of outbursts without due regard to practical thinking - and after only reading the thread title.
 

User184

Gold Member
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0
Actually, in Perth in Summer it's light until 830 with astronomical twilight lasting till after 9pm.
And it starts at 4am. Perth gets enough sunlight thanks. Keep your archaic thinking where you have to trick yourselves into going out doors.

I reckon go the other way. Have night time savings. Better to have twilight in the nice times as it's not FOURTY EFFING DEGREES when you want to go out and have fun.
 

MrBig

Diamond Member
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so whats wrong with daylight savings in Perth, California has it and that place is just as hot..
Los Angeles is roughly at 34 degrees , San Francisco is near 36 degrees. Ranging from 118 to 120 degrees longitude placing each of these cities within 2 degrees of the time line.
There-fore their sunset is earlier than ours. They'll get more twilight time but that's a cooler time and they being further north than we are south also makes it a cooler place. Might reach same maximums - but they're not sustained as long as in Perth.
Now also importantly. The orbit of the Earth around the Sun is elliptical and "wonky" placing the Earth closer to the Sun during the Southern Hemisphere summer.
 

MrBig

Diamond Member
Points
0
Perth
Daily events for 10 October
Event Time Altitude Azimuth
Minimum altitude: 00:04-51.6°180°
Astronomical twilight begins: 04:20-18.0°110°
Nautical twilight begins: 04:50-12.0°106°
Civil twilight begins: 05:19-6.0°101°
Sunrise: 05:44-0.8°98°
Maximum altitude: 12:0464.5°360°
Sunset: 18:24-0.8°262°
Civil twilight ends: 18:49-6.0°258°
Nautical twilight ends: 19:18-12.0°254°
Astronomical twilight ends: 19:48-18.0°250°

Position at selected time
Altitude 13.4°
Azimuth 270.6°
Right ascension 13h 1m 45s
Declination -6° 34' 55"
Range (AU) 0.9987076

Sydney (daylight saving tims)
Daily events for 10 October
Event Time Altitude Azimuth
Minimum altitude: 00:42-49.8°180°
Astronomical twilight begins: 04:56-18.0°111°
Nautical twilight begins: 05:26-12.0°106°
Civil twilight begins: 05:56-6.0°102°
Sunrise: 06:21-0.8°98°
Maximum altitude: 12:4362.6°360°
Sunset: 19:04-0.8°262°
Civil twilight ends: 19:29-6.0°258°
Nautical twilight ends: 19:59-12.0°254°
Astronomical twilight ends: 20:30-18.0°249°

Event
Autumn equinox
Spring equinox
Summer solstice

Position at selected time
Altitude -16.0°
Azimuth 250.3°
Right ascension 13h 1m 46s
Declination -6° 34' 58"
Range (AU) 0.9987070



Los Angeles (6 Months from now)
Daily events for 10 April
Event Time Altitude Azimuth
Minimum altitude: 00:54-47.8°360°
Astronomical twilight begins: 05:01-18.0°66°
Nautical twilight begins: 05:32-12.0°71°
Civil twilight begins: 06:02-6.0°76°
Sunrise: 06:28-0.8°79°
Maximum altitude: 12:5464.3°180°
Sunset: 19:21-0.8°281°
Civil twilight ends: 19:47-6.0°284°
Nautical twilight ends: 20:17-12.0°289°
Astronomical twilight ends: 20:48-18.0°294°

Yearly events for 2016
Event Time
Spring equinoxMar 19, 21:30
Summer solsticeJun 20, 15:34
Autumn equinoxSep 22, 07:21
Winter solsticeDec 21, 02:44

Position at selected time
Altitude -42.3°
Azimuth 32.1°
Right ascension 1h 17m 24s
Declination 8° 10' 19"
Range (AU) 1.0020142
Constellation
Pisces



Source: heavens-above.com



 

XLNC

Whatever happened to FREE love?
Legend Member
Points
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I don't understand, MrLittle. If WA does not indulge in this practice, why bother complaining?

I for one like coming home when there's still an hour or two of light left in the day at ~7pm.
 

Buk

Diamond Member
Points
0
WA folks are known as NIMBYS....

Daylight savings is great sorry to say... its great having light at 9pm at night...

WA is a good place... great for minors then when you become an adult time to leave... insert sarcasm ..

The UK kicks the whole of australia to the kerb... sorry to say...

Thanks for your kind words... but I was being my normal bitchy self..
Phoebes you're too hard on yourself :)
 

MrBig

Diamond Member
Points
0
I don't understand, MrLittle. If WA does not indulge in this practice, why bother complaining?

I for one like coming home when there's still an hour or two of light left in the day at ~7pm.
XLNC
Firstly, I'm not complaining - merely stating opinion and facts. My complaints are pending proposals in the wind which brings me to:
Secondly, at this time every damn year state backbenchers and/or opposition leaders (probably simply to lift their own profiles) push to introduce daylight saving in WA. We've endured trial runs and regular referendums at great cost and inconvenience to all. They're doing it again, wanting to introduce it even without referendum - despite voters' emphatic 'NO' vote.
Thirdly, having not stayed more than a few hours in Canberra, I am in no position to comment on its effect there as factors such as altitude and weather patterns would need to be taken into consideration.

However, having said that, what is to stop you, and those you work with/for, from fore-going daylight saving and allow those, that wish or determined by duties, to start earlier and finish earlier instead? A quick plus that comes to mind is that if half the businesses adopted this practice then peak hour traffic congestion should ease slightly - but possibly lengthened.
 

Happy2

Legend Member
Points
15
My cows stopped milking my curtains faded but my brethren in Perth Said we must have daylight saving Well that's what it seemed like when channel 7 decided to champion the cause but the people it seems disagreed
Anyway as User 184 said we have a extended twilight due to refraction due the sun setting over water so we get bonus sunlight


Besides just before the grand final the sentimentt was screw the East Now it's join them as we are backwards? This is our chance Keep our individuality
 

Amanda Secrets

Diamond Member
Points
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My cows stopped milking my curtains faded but my brethren in Perth Said we must have daylight saving Well that's what it seemed like when channel 7 decided to champion the cause but the people it seems disagreed
Anyway as User 184 said we have a extended twilight due to refraction due the sun setting over water so we get bonus sunlight


Besides just before the grand final the sentimentt was screw the East Now it's join them as we are backwards? This is our chance Keep our individuality
Wow your cows need a good chat and a stern lecture!! That's the trouble H2 you just get em trained to do the milking and they stop - union involvement perhaps??? Or have the udders all been complaining to em? :hilarious:
 

Happy2

Legend Member
Points
15
Wow your cows need a good chat and a stern lecture!! That's the trouble H2 you just get em trained to do the milking and they stop - union involvement perhaps??? Or have the udders all been complaining to em? :hilarious:
You should be given a dislike just for considering the Udder joke Amanda
Thankfully I am to nice a person to do such a thing
 

Happy2

Legend Member
Points
15
As for Back benchers agitating for Daylight saving Mr Little

If I remember correctly Carpenter (Then Premier) gave us a 3 year trial And all because his Minister for Hedumacation ans spellling was in the poo Next day she was moved from page one to about page 7 in the paper and just a 30 sec grab at worst on the TV News .
 

Phoebe

Some Village lost an Idiot!
Legend Member
Points
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Because unlike other nations, Australia is not a united country, ever state has to be different from each other.... its a joke... The whole of Europe 450 Million people live with daylight savings each and every year, BUT special people from Queensland, NT and those even more special from WA don't nor ever will.. Australia the land of unity!!
 

Happy2

Legend Member
Points
15
So we should be unified like China and have just one time zone instead ?
They got rid of Daylight saving but with 1 timezone So for some people 6 AM is still two hours till sunrise while for others the sun has been up for many hours

I believe it was 5 time zones once but at least they're unified
 

MrBig

Diamond Member
Points
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Because unlike other nations, Australia is not a united country, ever state has to be different from each other.... its a joke... The whole of Europe 450 Million people live with daylight savings each and every year, BUT special people from Queensland, NT and those even more special from WA don't nor ever will.. Australia the land of unity!!
Do you consider the USA as being a united country? (think/research before answering)
 

homer

Doh!
Legend Member
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hmmmm....I wonder what's the difference between WA Cows and the eastern states' Cows. Is the Mooo slightly different?
 
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