Australian Government wants to ban half the Internet

[Naughty Thoughts]

For those that did not know, Senator Stephen Conroy has this half-assed idea that he can block all the "illegal" (read: immoral) stuff available on the internet.

I'm all for blocking/stopping hate sites, terrorist sites, kiddy porn sites and so on - but the method he is hell-bent on installing won't work. He wants to install filters on every ISP in Australia - Man, what a retarded idea!

Pretty much anyone who knows anything about the internet and how it works can see that the Clean Feed propsal won't work - yet our beloved Senator Stephen Conroy seems to have a massive chubby for this and is going ahead with it full steam.

First, any ISP level work will slow everything down. If the server has to do A + B + C during the day in order to work and now it has to do A + B + C + X then the total time it takes will of course be slower in the second case than in the first - no matter how small and refined it is. Except that the filter would be more like A + X + B + X + C + X because in order to be effective, the filter needs to look at every single piece of information that flows through the server!

Second, it won't do what it's supposed to. The stated goal of the Clean Feed is to "stop illegal material" - but any net savvy user can circumvent ISP based filtering within a few minutes. Someone who is not net savvy can follow some simple instructions and do the same thing in about half an hour.

Third, it has two mutually exclusive goals - stop bad people getting information while not stopping good people getting information. In order to be effective, a Clean Feed system must be able to analyse and block (if it finds something blacklisted) all https and encrypted data. This would include all on-line banking, software downloads from vendors, paypal transactions and so on. If it is not looking inside these secure channels then the system is not effective - anybody with $10 a month can set up a VPN in America and transfer all the data (legal or illegal) that they felt like (this is exactly what many humanitarian aid workers, journalists and university students do in blanket-blocked countries like China and Iran).

They can't have it both ways

There is a great article here with a must-read pdf inside it.

Anyone who thinks that this is a trivial matter or that it will just go away should start by reading this short article and maybe follow it up with this one.

Everyone reading this should do some research - I don't think most people realise just how detrimental this will be to everyone if it goes ahead...

 

[SubNymphet]

This is insane!
all im going to say on it... like all other things the government want, doesnt matter what we think. arg! bloody politics!

 

[Naughty Thoughts]

Oh I totally agree with you on that point.

However, my main beef with this particular process (not the concept of the filtration, this particular implementation) is that it will slow down internet access for everybody, almost to the point of unusability. The current number being bandied about is 30% - but that's under lab conditions over short connections with low latency. Most Australian traffic goes through the US - which will slow everything down more.

At the moment, it is fairly easy for parents (or anyone) who wants to filter the internet for their home use. If you use a Mac and are running Leopard or later then a white-list option comes built-in. If you are running almost any flavour of linux then it's also similarly easy.

With Windows it is slightly harder (in that you need to instal third party software) but again - setting up a white list is a half-hour process.

** For those that don't know, a white list is a way of filtering the internet - there is an "approved" list of sites that the computer can access and all other sites are blocked. A good way to use these systems is to have a relatively small list of approved sites for the child/children and then add sites to the list as the child requests them. And if you have multiple kids of different ages, then the built-in Windows user system makes things just as easy. **

 

[Mary Anne PA]

I’m quite certain anyone that has proven there age will still be able to access any legal porn site. Morality doesn’t come into it, only legality.

Im pretty sure that porn is illegal inmost of Australia (you sure cant buy x rated in a WA store) and that this would extend to the internet, but Im not certain.
2curiousperth would be the one to answer this, as Im pretty sure they know a bit about the issue.

Morals are a definately value judgement. Your average church goer believes that even sex before marriage is immoral, let alone a site like this, or our local swingers club!

I personally dont think the govt should have the right to decide what I view. Once censorship like this starts, who is to say that the latest political scandal (or collapse of Enron) wont be considered 'inappropriate?'

 

[fifoboy]

I seriously think that any government that brings this in will not be re elected. Business won't cop the reduced speed and average man/woman on the street isn't going to be keen on the big brother tactics. This is the sort of censorship that you see in China and North Korea.
If it was going to stop pedo's you'd probably give it a chance, but it's not, so what is the point.

 

[swingingstories]

Gee, slightly slower internet, a few less titties or pussies to look at. How will we survive? Just imagine if we have to go back to ooh, the early 1980's when we didn't even have PC's to use at home. I remember gaming used to consist of a cassette tape and Commodore 64. I'm surprised any of us lived through it.

Sorry to sound a little sarcastic, but the amazing advances in technology are not going to go away overnight just because one politician gets a bee in his bonnet.

As for moral arguments, that is a debate that will rage forever. How do you draw a line, as long as it's consenting adults involved, anything goes? How about simulated snuff, or rape scenes (it's only acting after all)? And what about beastiality, illegal in this country (personally repugnant to me) but who are we to apply our personal morality to the situation. Point is, governments have for years attempted to dictate morality and people have always found ways around it. I think it's good to have someone standing up for one extreme end of the argument, because it helps to keep the other extreme end a little bit regulated. Then the rest of us who happen to be 80%of the population can go about our business quite happily.

Honestly, if you've seen one porn you've seen them all.

Love
swingingstories

 

[someguy]

Ummm you do realise that if the filter is implemented then sites like this one will more than likely be inaccessible too? Not to mention perfectly harmless (ie non sexual, non violent etc etc) that will possibly get caught up in this too.

 

[Mrs Langtrees]

Loneroad, I haven't really read this thread, just wanted to say hello, you disappeared for a while, its great to see you back. Give me a call one day soon, I would like to update you on what I am doing with the forum and Langtrees.com.

 

[someguy]

Why? Have you ever walked into an adult book store in WA, what here is more offensive than can be found inside an adult bookstore?

Since I have never been west of Adelaide I can safely say that no, I have never been inside an adult bookstore in WA

Quite frankly such silly panic merchanting needs to be substantiated.

I did not base my comments on mere assumptions. I have based my comments on what I have read over the last few weeks. Reading what has been said by the people who run ISP's and by people who are very knowledgeable in this field. There seems to be a widespread belief here and on some other adult forums that porn and whatnot will be the only things targeted and that the forum(s) will be sweet. I am just pointing out that that may not be the case. It's not panic merchanting at all in my view, just giving people something to think about.

And has been pointed out time and time again, the internet interprets censorship as damage and re-routes.

Seriously people, the army isn’t storming the newspapers quite just yet.

Not sure what "army" you are referring to, but the Rudd government has done a great job up until now keeping this out of the public eye. It hadn't until just recently received any kind of media coverage. While I am reasonably confident that this won't ever eventuate, it is something to be concerned about even if others want to ignore it.

 

[Mary Anne PA]

Then you frequent the wrong stores, because I have no problem finding x-rated material in all of Perth's adult stores. Magazines, DVD's and a couple of cool kinky games over the years.

You know celeste, whether you realise it or not, you yourself have sat in front of me and put on quite a pornographic little show and no one arrested you.
( Damn, good memories, damn nice memories )

Im aware that there IS x rated available, but the law is (for dvds at least ) mail order only. at one place I was working they were fined around $30k in the time I was there, for selling x rated movies.

Yup, peepshows are illegal too, under the law, however it isnt enforced in WA. Vic has x rated porn and live sex shows, which are all illegal under federal law, just its not enforced.

Every fancy a private show let me know lol. Specially if you have a girl to share with me ;-p

 

[sdis-007]

for more information
Link is broken, so taken down.
for a more professional viewpoint
Link is broken, so taken down.

there will be protest/gatherings held in each state on the 13th of december to raise awareness of the issues & generate more interest from the public in the fight against this ridiculous idea

i have no problem with an "optional" filter
especially when there are many hundreds of ways already in which to control internet access at home & in public

but not a mandatory filter which a user who is paying for a service can not opt out of

 

[Paul881]

I personally have no problem with the idea of stopping illegal porn, or other illegal content for that matter. After all, what Mac n Ophi says is right, illegal material is stopped in all other media channels such as magazines, TV, movies etc.

What I do have a problem with though is that the technology doesn't currently exist to do this effectively without a) significantly slowing down the entire internet service for both businesses and the general public, and b) filtering out perfectly legal material that has simply been caught up in some automated filter.

For anyone to argue that this forum, or anything else you happen to like for that matter, isn't going to get filtered out because it is legal, is quite frankly crap. You don't know what will and will not be filtered out, because you aren't in control of the filtering system and more to the point, you never will be. At this point in time none of us, including those of us working with ISPs on a daily basis, actually know how this is going to work in the real world, if it is ever implemented.

I have read much of the associated banter on the subject, and at the moment this smacks of a serious case of throwing the baby out with the bath water. When a more sensible, rational, non-moralistic, non-religious and most of all technologically achievable solution is put forward, I will be the first to support it.

 

[beebs]

Link is broken, so taken down.

a quick search of the list doesn't produce talkinsex...yet!

 

[svengali]

I couldn't get the link to load but a hit list wouldn't surprise me. After all, Kevin is a Socialist and therefore a "controller".

What is really worrying is the number of politicians who "come out" as church-goers after they have been elected. I, for one, would rather vote for Osama than for a polly who is going to be led around by his/her church.

 

[Teddie01]

For those who wish to protect their children, there are a number of third party programmes which they can installed on their pcs.

The police are there to take care of those who choose to access illegal sites.

However many people are not aware of the push to censor the internet and even if they were, how many would do anything about it? Apathy on the part of the general population is the emerging dictactors greatest ally.

You never appreciate what you had until it is taken away.

 

[corneus]

Thankfully this looks like it will be knocked on the head...


Web censorship plan heads towards a dead end - BizTech - Technology - smh.com.au

 

[svengali]

Hmm!! Xenophon and Fielding have flip-flopped around on so many issues I would hate to rely on their word for anything. Our best hope is the popularity if porn. Many people involved in these trials and in various government departments have their own little secret stashes and list of websites and we can count on them putting a spanner in the works at any and every opportunity. There is also a general dislike of censorship which will worry a populist like Rudd. If he sees it as a vote-loser it will disappear quickly and quietly.

 

[hopey]

i think the government is tyring to take control of too many things these days and trying to limit internet is just crazy. well thats my view

 

[GWarr1or]

they cant limit it , its only air waves , the really clever peolpe among us will find away around it regardless , people make new protection for their digital wares and so forth , and we find away around it , eg playing Pirated Games , and burning Moviies, with Copyright protection.

some clever bugger will figure out how to get around the filter and then everyone will do it.